They KNEW it was defective and not drop-safe when the Army testing showed ’em it wasn’t. They don’t DO that. All this because someone in Washington wanted to punish Beretta for moving out of Maryland after the state passed an assault weapons ban. I’m literally saying they should have gone with any other of the entrants that were submitted. There is another problem that is concerning. Please dumb down the answer enough so that a lowly 11 year experienced manufacturing engineer, like myself, can understand. Oooh, that’s MUCH better!”)? Of course they did. When Sig Sauer unveiled the Sig P320 model in 2014, a key selling point was that it did away with this necessity. Jesus, Ted, did they make you buy one? Notify When In Stock. Sig Sauer P320 M17 Caliber X-Change Kit. Here’s how the P320 works, and how it performed at the range. Currently shipping with 1 17RD magazine and a voucher included in the box from Sig Sauer to receive the 2nd magazine when supplies are replenished at a later date. The wording of the report is not entirely clear on the exact date, but it states the Army directed SIG to develop an ECP, or Engineering Change Proposal, to lighten the weight of the components in the trigger to fix the drop fire issue. Sig Sauer P320 For Sale Sig Sauer P320 Pistols and Handguns For Sale Online. Regular readers will remember our ongoing coverage of the polymer pistol’s drop safe problem, leading to a “voluntary recall.” We now learn that SIG knew about the issue long before it hit the media . Nominate Them For A $1,000 Prize From AARP, Fewer Military Recruits Dropped Out of Boot Camp in 2020. Grayguns Sig Sauer P320 Competition Adjustable Trigger System - Straight . And it was more than one slide. Usually get what you pay for. The military relies heavily on space-based technologies to keep its edge on the battlefield. They’re worse than Cheaper Than Dirt. I now have zero enthusiasm for buying a new p365 because of Sig’s handling of the P320’s issues. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. How did the introduction of the M16 go? The Army will regret it. Multiply by the weight of the gun and divide by twice the acceleration of gravity, and you get the recoil energy in foot pounds. Sig Sauer, based in New Hampshire, makes the Army's Modular Handgun System. Add to Cart See Details. I’ve had a lot of problems with Sig Sauer over the years with customer service and just junk breaking Inside their pistols. Most every “competitor” I know uses a 1911 style, double-stack pistol. But they consciously, knowingly put the unsafe version in the hands of Americans. They can suck on their own barrels and drop-safe their triggers right in their mouths for all I care. Add to Cart. “The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket.”, ……..I see no problem here…..SAYS NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Must be nice. The slides would have fatigue cracks at the corners of the notches where the locking block ears would engage the slide. The 11 by the army were in testing. As a Beretta fan (love my Beretta 96) I’m near overdosing with schadenfreude. Grayguns PELT Sig Sauer P320 Competition Trigger Kit - Curved . Has a safety that has to be engaged and disengaged with the other hand Add to Wish List Add to Compare. Can I borrow your time machine since you’ve already been to August of 2018 and I’d like to visit myself? That’s unconscionable. . Without knowing the “proper” temper, it just reeks of gross inconsistency. Glock has plenty of issues but they are routinely ignored because of the amount of Glock worship in the gun community. . However, the P320 loses points to the Glock in terms of safety. And these are the die-hard P-Series Pistols that have been around for years. Would you be so kind as to pick me up a copy of the Wall Street Journal? – the Army will have M9s for the next 10 years at least. Next question. They were just “UPGRADES”! Notify When In Stock. Heck, even in supply chain land, the cost of “stuff” skews ever more toward clerking and tracking. I have a P320, with upgrade. Sig Sauer P320 Lima Compact 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol w/ LIMA320 Green Laser Grip, Stainless - 320C-9-BSS-LIMA-G . So Sig knew their POS P320 wasn’t drop-safe, and they foisted it on us consumers anyway. This is why it baffles me when they had a pistol system that worked but it didn’t fit good and smaller people’s hands. I also know how to handle my firearm and don’t go around dropping them either. Issues were discovered, issues will be discovered. But why not just keep the M9. Special Price $99.92 Regular Price $129.00. Items 91 to 105 of 187 total ... Shop for a variety of Sig Sauer accessories including magazines, Caliber X-Change Kits, holsters, mag pouches, carry bags, parts, springs, and optics. Seeing as the pistol is 100% with hollowpoints, and still 60%-75% with NEW SPEC ball ammo, I’m betting it’s some ammo QC issue rather than SIG engineering. It should have been the Army’s choice. Now we get to sit back and watch Glock fanboys tell Sig fanboys how the Glock should have won and the Glock is better. Only useable by those with gorilla hands Those FBI Glocks didn’t have any problems at all, oh wait, the locking blocks and triggers fell out and the slides jettisoned but PERFECTION! Best I can figure, if they’re not talking about a light strike that they are manually racking out of the chamber, is one spectacular double feed. Here's Why, New Naval Strategy Zeroes in on China as Biggest Long-Term Threat to the US, Congress Authorizes New Arctic Icebreakers for Coast Guard, Navy, Coast Guard Search for Sailor Overboard off USS Theodore Roosevelt, A Marine Reveals Everything Right and Wrong with that 'Mandalorian' Mortar Trooper, Netflix Reminds Us that the $6 Billion Dollar Soldier Is Coming Soon, Here Are the 10 Best Military Movies of 2020. Another turd Sig has laid. Meanwhile I’ll just pop some popcorn, enjoy the show and keep enjoying my Beretta 96. The P320 pistol met and exceeded all U.S. safety standards, but it was discovered during additional testing that the P320 pistol could discharge if dropped at a specific angle, it states. Times are changing and the striker fired polymer king Glock, is being given a run for its money by Sig Sauer. It’s not the number or rounds fired. The SIG Sauer M17 and M18 are service pistols used by the United States Armed Forces.. On January 19, 2017, the United States Army announced that a customized version of the SIG Sauer P320 had won the Army's XM17 Modular Handgun System competition.The full-sized model will be known as the M17, and the smaller-sized carry model will be known as the M18. You want our government to spend more money than it already does?? I know we’re in a firefight, but my pistol isn’t very comfortable! A total of 14 slide failures were documented with only 3 by the Navy Seals all of which were in operational use. Get more stuff n track it looser. And I’m just sitting here with my CZ P-09 that I can’t get to malfunction no matter what I do…. If they wanted to have a compact pistol for CID then there were many off the shelf options available. I am quite certain there are mean failure ratios in the contract that have to be met or the contract will either be adjusted or Sig found in breach. I am certain that every single Glock that fires when dropped, or fires without a trigger pull, has been recalled. You mean the possible problem Beretta fixed 30 years ago? . . Oh, I’m sorry. The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket. It is, however, a well-known and understood design issue that increases the amount that point of aim jumps on recoil unless you don’t believe in physics. Then 250 the following day. If they didn’t find any, they wouldn’t be doing their job and probably wouldn’t exist for too long. unreliable) and obsolete…. Why I think Glock got rooked. start over from scratch). Even worse, the report recommends the Army engineer some fixes “upon identification of the root cause” of the ejection issue — a statement that indicates the branch hasn’t yet identified the source of the issue. Don’t worry about SIG problems. But they’ve been using rifles made out of recycled Schlitz cans and melted Pringles lids for years. Yea I own a P320, reliable and no issues. Unfortunately the gov’t will NEVER go with quality, and the higher (but manageable) costs that come with it. That’s a shit ton of guns. Find out why the Sig P320 was awarded the 2016 American Rifleman Golden Bullseye "Handgun of the Year' award. Shooting Review: Sig Sauer P320 Carry | Eagle Gun Range Inc. In other words, you simply square the velocity of recoil, which is easily calculated when we know the weight of the bullet and powder charge and its velocity when exiting from the muzzle. Quick, throw me another frame so I can swap it out! But if you do that the data might point away from what you’ve already decided. They should have spent more time testing the weapons system before handing it over to the civilian populace for their beta testing. Too heavy "However, to avoid the uncertainty and high costs of further litigation, Sig Sauer has reached an agreement to resolve this case. The slide of the M9 (92SB) as originally adopted could fly off if the locking block broke. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Obviously Glock should have been in ….In both 9mm and 45 acp ! NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Sig Sauer P320 Compact 9mm / .40 Auto / .357 SIG Large Grip Module, Black - GRIPMODC943LGBLK . SIG SAUER P320 Engraved Edition with 10 rd magazine $1,149.99. Sig Sauer P320 Nitron Compact 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol, Blk - 320C-9 … Should have completed the tests before choosing. Anything else, including THE ENTIRE PURPOSE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE MILITARY, is now at least 5th down the line in terms of importance. After almost a year and 5,000 rounds, let’s take a look at how the SIG Sauer P320 XCompact did. I and others knew this entire thing was b*****it from the start…. SIG SAUER, Inc. is proud to announce the Nevada Highway Patrol has transitioned to the SIG SAUER P320 9mm pistol as their official duty pistol. $30.00. Why they didn’t just switch to the fnx or fns is beyond me. I prefer the G19 and its what I carry now. Sig Sauer P320 RX, X-Five, TACOPS, X-VTAC on Sale at the Best Price in TX The P320® Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost. Sig Sauer P320 Carry Coyote for sale now at Proven Arms & Outfitters. I don’t know, I’ll stick with systems with a proven track record, not this LATEST AND GREATEST BS. SIG SAUER P320 M17 $1,499.99. Is it a good idea to buy military pistols that fire when dropped, sometimes fire when the trigger isn’t depressed, and that won’t feed FMJ ammunition properly, just because you can remove the firing mechanism quickly and swap between ‘frames’ (which is, realistically, not really a huge consideration on a military pistol, but never mind. Sig Sauer P320: Gun Review. When people PROVED that it wasn’t drop-safe, they said “shut up, go away, you don’t know what you’re talking about” — when they knew for a FACT that it wasn’t drop-safe. Nostalgic for slides flying off and hitting people in the face? SIG chose to design the P320 as a striker-fired handgun with a relatively high mass metal trigger with no trigger safety – despite the fact that this safety feature has been included on almost every striker-fired handgun since the 1970s. The revelations contained therein are anything but bland. When we asked about the P320 drop safe issue that August, SIG SAUER told TTAG they had modified the military model’s trigger to enhance the trigger pull and eliminate the “click” about which many users — including the U.S. Army — had complained. “….Unfortunately the gov’t will NEVER go with quality…”. !….GOOD G#D ALMIGHTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you’re adding an RMR as a future standard, I’d be in favor of that, then that might change things as the M9, without a significant slide redesign, couldn’t use one, and the M17 already has a cut, but the rear sight is on the adapter, who thought that was a good idea. I don’t even like Glocks that much but this should be grounds for a lawsuit. Is it time to mention that Glocks don’t fire when dropped, only fire when the trigger is depressed, and feed FMJ ammunition rather well? So, Seans, I had the details wrong, but the way you put it actually sounds worse than I thought it was. It contains several interesting facts about the pistol program. Don’t give me that G decocker crap or tell me about the M9A3 BS…not interested. To me, isn’t this REALLY similar to the Smith .38, the 1911, the Beretta, issues, when they started shipping them to the Army? Hunter Holmes McGuire played a pivotal role in designating medical personnel as noncombatants but had a troubling history... "They should not test us," said Army Gen. Stephen Townsend, head of U.S. Africa Command. Nobody fights of war with a handgun anyways I don’t know why they thought it was such importance to update their handgun. Sig Sauer Magazine: P320/P250 Compact: 9mm 15rd Capacity - MAG-MOD-C-9-15 . “Muh bore axis” not a valid excuse for your poor shooting skills. Did you know some shooters put lighter recoil springs in competition pistols to prevent…wait for it…muzzle dip! If I’m going to tote around gun that big it’s gonna be launching a bigger bullet too. Never mind. You can find the Sig Sauer P320 and P320-M17 for sale here, along with Sig P320 magazines, holsters, optics, lasers, and accessories. US shooting competitors run their handguns a lot harder than the Army does and they have universally moved to polymer framed pistols. Glock, Glock, and oh yes, Glock. Which will be the same thing guys twenty years from now will say about all of these ‘reports’. Thankfully, their Jedi mind trick didn’t work on most of us. Going to a tellurium free grade steel and adding radii to those corners fixed the issue. Also, tempering issues. Does not have a rail for a light. Right?! Maybe you’d remember that if most of these people and blogs didn’t worship at the feet of Gaston…. Mic a few of the dimensions via a set of lowly calipers. “I will NEVER drop my gun, therefore it doesn’t matter if it is drop-safe” smacks of 1st-Degree Hubris. If your left handed you should learn to shoot right-handed before basic training was over. Customers Also Viewed. Everybody wants perfection but the fact of the matter is perfection isn’t in play in business deals – acceptable levels are. Earlier this summer, SIG SAUER announced the creation of its in-house custom shop, known as SIG SAUER Custom Works, and the P320 Custom Works Fire Control Unit (FCU) program. The Beretta’s were not flying off due to using overpressure ammunition. Well shit, this changes everything! That’s not to say that the Sig Sauer P320 isn’t completely safe to use. The P320 is obviously the system designed to carry the SIG Sauer banner deep into the 21st Century, going up against such impressive names as Ruger, S&W, Beretta, HK, FN and Glock. Soldiers have been know to use the butt end of 1911 as a hammer. Required fields are marked *. And yeah, I’m buying the P365 ASAP. Sig P320 and Sig P320 For Sale. Following the Senate's approval last week, the House passed the bill Wednesday by voice vote without any objections. As someone who used an M9 for more than not looking too unfriendly during a meet and greet with your local terrorist enabler I hated the M9. The difference is, I’m not doing so completely unprovoked). The problem with the contract was that the military never finished the testing and just went with the cheaper bid(not modularity like some have claimed.) This ECP-updated, non-drop-fire pistol was the one which took part in PVT, or Product Verification Test, beginning in April 2017. The subject of this article, the P320 X-Carry, has seen a recent spike of interest on the national and international … “Get over it”, and “make it work” hurts feelings, and as you know, in an organization whose sole purpose is ultimately to kill enemies and break their shit (and who have historically done a phenomenal job at that), ensuring that nobody has their feelings hurt is the #1, and #2, and #3, and possible also #4 priority. That was due to the fact that the US Government was sourcing non-Beretta manufactured locking blocks from a third party lowest bid vendor who didn’t properly manufacture the part to spec. The SIG P320 X Five for sale at Omaha Outdoors is a full-size member of the X-Series family that paves the way for all others in its class. Around 14minutes he starts talking about the locking block. This is it, no question. Oh I love the “cuz physics” argument. , Hell, the USMC settled this argument…its called the G19 Glock!!!!…NaHell!!!!! /sarc. We stock the Sig Sauer P320 and P250 magazines for sale that are manufactured to exacting standards and precise specifications. That is a myth that was purposely spread by Beretta. “But it’s heavy and expensive.” I hear what your saying and Imma let you finish, but I counter your argument with the fact THE DAMN THING WORKS! The SIG Sauer P320 is a modular semi-automatic pistol made by SIG Sauer, Inc. of Exeter, New Hampshire, and SIG Sauer GmbH of Eckernförde, Germany.It is a further development of the SIG Sauer P250, utilizing a striker-fired mechanism in lieu of a double action only hammer system. I’m guessing no one bothered looking at the source of the report, and the other programs that were evaluated, and much more significant problems noted. Wasn’t that the floor requirement ? Fixed a very long time ago. . then they invited the press in and said “look, we already had this other trigger, we put it in and all your problems are solved.” HOW DID THEY “ALREADY” HAVE THIS OTHER TRIGGER? Why? This is not an F-35 or even an M16. But pistols barely get issued, the training regimen is woeful for pistols, because they’re really are very few folks using them in combat. The Fire Control Unit (FCU), the driving force behind the modularity of the P320, now stands on its own - enabling an entirely new level of customization and personalization in the world of firearms.P320 Custom Works FCU; countless options, endless possibilities. As one vet on Youtube said, the Army needed new GUNS, not an entirely new platform. Yeah, but this is the same military where an entire unit will now be made to conform to the gender demands of a single person. As far as slides flyinig off give me a break. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army's Modular Handgun System is based. I don’t care if it fits a hundred rounds. © Copyright 2020 Bore axis is only one factor. And according to my Dad when I had him read this, why he threw a fit when they took away his M14 and gave him a “…piece of junk, jam-o-matic, pansy M16”, cause they jammed all the time and hence he had no time for one, yet that’s still the basic design used by our Military… They fix this and that as needed and that’s why you’ve got a 30 year history of M9 use. That isn’t just irresponsible, that’s irresponsible to the point of depravity. Buy Glock…..its not “Americas got talent” or a beauty pageant…it has to work and work well…….and GLOCK WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Executive Summary (linked in the article) states that after the drop fire problem was fixed by installing a lighter trigger, two triggers broke (splintered). Private snuffy uses gear in ways it was not intented. Pardon my density, but in a world with on-demand, just in time, batch-oriented logistics n for realz mass customization … easing internal logistics with “commonality” seems off point. The suspension is unrelated to a recent report that found significant faults in Fort Hood's command climate and culture. It’s like a gun designed by a committee and none of the committee members were talking to each other. then changing or updating those standards becomes an exercise in frustration and failure….. it actually becomes easier for a service branch to start from scratch with a new something and exclude the other branches…. It usually always comes down to quality vs quantity. Reducing the clerk-burden by having one part number for all the frames seems … off-point? Someone in the chain simply did not want Glock winning. The annual congressional omnibus funding bill includes $600 stimulus checks for pandemic relief. TTAG cannot verify whether the U.S. Army knew about the P320 drop safe issue prior to our coverage in August 2017. They knowingly, purposely, sold a known defective product that could hurt people, to innocent customers. The Sig Sauer P320 is also an excellent choice for those of you that live in an area with strict gun laws, for obvious reasons. I am a fan of many platforms but not a fanboy of any, shit happens. -- Matthew Cox can be reached at The Beretta is an excellent gun as far as function too. The P320 is an abortion that should go back to formula (i.e. And, for the record, there has never been a verified instance of any P320 firing when dropped… It’s almost like a repeat of the turn-of-the-century Colt automatics which had the same problem of slides flying off. He’s right. New. They’d be better off if they just looked at some ammo that doesn’t befoul the 1899 Hague Convention. There are quite a few options out there that would increase effectiveness, and little of it actually has to do with the launching platform. This is why the Ruger LCP sucks to shoot, even though it’s shooting a wimpy bullet, to give one of many examples. I mean a truly evil company obviously used their time machine to manipulate the laws of time and space to ensure they’d make tens of thousands pistols with the flaw, but only after they’d discovered it, went back in time and un-fixed it so that….or something. So, I suspect that the lighter trigger installed for the Sig Voluntary Upgrade Program and in current production, has the same weakness. I’m not saying they should have gone with the Glock. The new disconnector was included in the company's free Voluntary Upgrade Program (VUP) offered to all owners of P320s purchased prior to Aug. 8, 2017, according to a Sig Sauer statement. . I changed my mind about that P365. Front sight cannot be changed As part of the design upgrade, a mechanical disconnector was added to "enhance trigger feel and consistency, as well as to prevent a dead trigger condition when the trigger has been pulled with the slide retracted," according to the statement. The settlement also applies to current and former P320 owners who previously returned their pistol to the company after a "cartridge failure event" and were told that it could not be repaired, according to the Sig document. Misguided? It’s been 100% reliable from the first day, which btw saw 250 rounds through it that day. Take two or more P320’s. This beretta slide crap was addressed before most soldiers were born. . Thanks in advance. Few of us are foolish enough to actually believe that any tool made by Man is ‘perfect;’ Neither are we foolish enough to confound a mechanical defect that does NOT result in a negligent discharge with one that DOES. Its not like the P320 was introduced to the public in 2015 and the MHS tests in 2016. Training problems will happen, user error will come into play, all kinds of things will pop up. Features coyote tan finish, ambi manual thumb safety, DP Pro Plate. First draw the curve. Heck, you only save 5 Oz between an M9 and M17. Shop By. Sig Sauer to Settle Lawsuit Over Alleged Safety Glitch in P320 Pistol, More Than 70 West Point Cadets Allegedly Caught Cheating on Math Exam, Iraqi Army: 8 Rockets Target US Embassy in Baghdad, Virginia's Robert E. Lee Statue Has Been Removed from the US Capitol, Justice Dept. Sig Sauer P320 M17 commercial variant of the military contract sidearm. They should have bought the FNX-45!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For the most versatile pistol, available in an extensive variety of models and features, the Sig Sauer P320 for sale right here is one that can’t be beat. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of its Sig P320 pistol who paid for repairs or upgrades to prevent an alleged safety glitch, which could cause the weapon to fire accidentally. He clears up so many misconceptions and fuddlore stories. Rating: … I know a lot of guys who have had meet and greets with your local terrorist enablers who are just fine with the M-9.

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